| COMMENTS |
Dingani Beza
You can't get a good conversation going until there is a realization that racism goes
both ways
Dave..none of your posts or the things you say exemplify this! Jon and I "ALWAY"
say that our only concern is that the law is applied "equally" b...oth ways...read all
my comments...this is always my conclusion, not yours.
Dingani Beza
And..if racism does not exist in this country...explain the irrational laws which
prosecute "cocaine" vs. "crack"...i wont even go any further...research yourself.
IrishAmerican Lass
I know that racism exits on both sides, have seen it and experienced it first hand. It
saddens me that its getting worse with the great uniter being a great divider. It
always amazes me that people don't even try to understand the view from the other
side. They think it only applies to those of their own race. What so ever a man think
in his heart !
Dingani Beza
@IrishAmerican Lass..totally agree
Dingani Beza
@All...i just hate that Dave seems to suggest that the Govt "just started" supporting
racism due to the outcome of the black panther incident...
Now, while he may be correct that this is the first incident we have seen where the
DOJ dismiss...ed a case...this is NOT THE ONLY show of support, or the ONLY
way this Govt has shown its support for racism.
Silence is the biggest show of support ever. And on many occasions..the Govt has
been silent as it pertains to all forms of racism...perpetrated on ALL races.
@Keli...make sure you read that the person said white folks dont feel intimidated..i
dont think thats what was said...another problem is that we dont take time to
understand what someone is saying. but...at any rate...i have no ill feelings against
you.
RACISM EXISTS ON ALL LEVELS...I JUST WANT THIS COUNTRY TO
TREAT ALL CASES FAIRLY..THATS IT
IrishAmerican Lass
Dingani, I agree with your statement about silence. I think what is happening is that
this that this admistration is using it as a battering ram against the whites. That's is
just not helpful.
Kelli Kekich Renken
@Dingani: your profile says that your religious view is "a view from the cross." I
think the cross is where we can find peace and reconciliation. I hope that we can all
see that hatred is hatred no matter the color of the person doing t...he hating. We are
all created in God's image and deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. I do
not believe that any race is superior or inferior. We stand and fall on on what we do
and what we say, and for some of us, on the grace of God, through the cross of
Jesus Christ. But reconciliation takes conversation, honesty. listening, and
forgiveness. It is all hard work. It is not helpful if this administration is actually
engaging in discrimination, even if it has been done in the past.
Kelli Kekich Renken
I agree, Dingani. I'm not sure it was your post I was responding to.
Unfortunately, I could not read many of the posts on Dave's website because a
bunch are piled on top of each other. There is some sort of glitch. (Is anyone else
having... the same problem?)See More
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Dingani Beza @Kelli...if you read ALL of my posts..im
not sure where we disagree. When i say something...please make sure you read it in
the context in which it was said. :-) I dont mean that in a mean way, i am only
saying it so we dont waste time deb...ating about things that we agree upon.
Dingani Beza
@Keli...no worries. :-)
But...here is food for thought. Let me know "honestly" what you think.
Two people walk into a grocery store and steal food.
...
Assailant 1 did it becase he gets a thril and a "rush" from stealing and getting away
with it...and he wants to make alittle extra money by selling what he steals.
Assailant 2 has been layed off work...has applied for unemployment and has been
denied, with no family to turn to for help, so, he steals some food to feed his child
who has not eaten.
Are they both wrong? and in what way?
Todd Brophy
Yes, every way.
Dave Weinbaum replies:
"Dave..none of your posts or the things you say exemplify this! Jon and I "ALWAY"
say that our only concern is that the law is applied "equally" b...oth ways...read all
my comments...this is always my conclusion, not yours."
"You can't get... a good conversation going until there is a realization that racism
goes both ways" Me
In light of me saying this, how can you say the above?
I've NEVER been inconsistent with trying to enforce the law either way. As to the
various forms of coke and the proclivity of crack in the black areas, I would agree
they should have equal penalties under the law.
BTW., your protests about equal protection under the law via voting violations are
NOT metered out equally. Those Putz's at the voting polls was the most vile and
open violation of election law in the last 60 years. What you provided me as election
violations were a bunch of untried unproven cases with no link to who did them.
THE BPS WERE ON FILM! It's irrelevent whether the one BP dropped his baton.
The damage to our election prossess and what we may see in the Nov elections has
been done.See More
Albert Reitmann
Kelli:
Read Dave's website using Internet Explorer and you won't have any problems.
Dingani Beza
@Todd...thats all well if thats your answer, but i was looking to dig alittle deeper,
thanks though.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.Todd Brophy Is your point there is a time where it is
all right to break the law? Yes, if the law is wrong or is an undue abuse to society.
That's how the Declaration of Independence came about. Your question did not fall
into that category. It is not ok to steal a pair of Nikes because you have no shoes.
Dingani Beza What you provided me as election violations were a bunch of untried
unproven cases with no link to who did them (Dave)
This just goes to show you havent researched any of those things...there is
abundant material online of actual investigat...ions taking place, and the actual news
articles from the news tribunals of the places where many of these offenses took
place...DO YOU KNOW HOW TO USE A SEARCH ENGINE LIKE GOOGLE OR
YAHOO? IM BEGINNING TO WONDER.
DAVE..this is why the internet is so beautiful...we no longer have to Post all
articles...all one has to do to substantiate another's claim is to look the information
up themselves...thereby proving them truthful, or a liar.
BUT IT SEEMS IF ITS NOT SOMETHING YOU POST, YOU ARE TOO LAZY
TO RESEARCH.
Todd Brophy
Look at what I posted on Dave's wall this morning.
Dingani Beza
@Todd..stop trying to figure me out..i just asked a question...my question is much
deeper than "if there are times if its ok to break law"...thats a pretty shallow
question...and one on the surface..im digging deeper.
Dingani Beza
I am looking for one to answer from a "rule of law" perspective, a sociological
perspective, a psychological perspective, and a human empathetic or sympathetic
perspective....
trust me...that question is NOT concerned with the issue of "if i...ts ok to break the
law"...thats immediately what all ppl think...but not so
.
Todd Brophy
I most certainly am not trying to figure you out. I gave that up.
Kelli Kekich Renken
@Dingani: I've read Les Miserables. And I've seen the movie Pursuit of Happyness.
Both explore or relate to this question. I was frustrated through the entire Pursuit
movie because I could only ask, "Where was this man's community? Wh...ere was
his church? Where was his family? Where were his friends?" If a person chooses to
live in that kind of isolation, then it isn't surprising that they had no help when times
got rough.
There is usually a lot more going on than the simple scenarios you presented. I am
not speaking just hypothetically. I know people and even have family members
faced with this kind of stuff (both scenarios). Did they both break the law? Yes.
Should the penalty be the same? No, and it rarely is. Is every similar case equally
tried and decided in this country? No, and good luck finding anywhere in the world
or in history where that happened.
I think you are a little unjust to Dave. While we should all try to look at all facets of
an issue, in a debate, it isn't his job to prove your side. If there are cases of voting
injustice, show them to us. Or give us links so we can go find those. And even if
injustices have been done (and I'm sure they have) do they negate the injustice done
here. This is a blatant, in-your-face case, and the Justice Dept. appears to have
washed over it.
Dingani Beza
@Todd..well..since u wanna leave that question alone..please..let me tell you who i
am...i am not a Dem or Repub.
While Bush doubled the Deficit and lied to us about WMD's from info acquired from
Germany that they deemed "UNRELIABLE"....and... made alot of "liberal" moves
like -no child left behind- and his work on medicaid and his handling of the
rebuilding of Iraq....
I also find that OBAMA has made some very CRITITCAL MISTAKES early on in
his presidency...for example, letting the Bush tax cuts expire for one, and some of
his views on healthcare, when using the state of Mass. as a blueprint...are totally
wrong......but anyway..this issue of the economy goes much deeper than that...
Michael and Dave had a great convo going on this...
so Todd..i am a man who judges the issue...not the party lines along which
someond falls..bc its getting to a point where ALL politicians are closer to the
middle..with a few stragglers way left or way right...McCain was even just a
conservative Liberal...
Dave Weinbaum replies:
Hey D. It's YOUR argument. I told you I couldn't verify ANY of those cases. The
onus is on you to provide proof. I am not your research bitch!
Dave Weinbaum
BTW., I wrote the above post BEFORE I read Kelli's response to you...Putz!
Dingani Beza
And even if injustices have been done (and I'm sure they have) do they negate the
injustice done here.
@Kellli..this is exactly what i say to Dave constantly. the problem with facebook is
that we can only take into account what ppl say on "...one" given post...we cant
read them all over the last few weeks...
And i believe Dave is so conservative that he fights issues not for what they are...
but from an immediate conservative bias aimed at destroying and demonizing the
other side or his opponent..
Me, i stand in the middle...and i judge each issue as they come. Look at my last
post...i have issue with Bush and Obama...
until citizens in this country stop being so party aligned and fighting one another
every time a bias report comes out and realize that our Congress (ALL of Congress)
has an 11% APPROVAL RATING, MEANING, ONLY ONE OUT OF EVERY 10
PPL THINIK THEY ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, we are never gonna turn this
country around.
Todd Brophy
Agreed, McCain is a lukewarm Liberal. The tax cuts have not yet expired. The
threat is to let them expire, but even economists in the administration say to do so
would seriously harm the economy. I don't believe anybody but Sadam and some i...
ntelligence people who wanted to find WMD's lied about them. But that is water
under the bridge. The expansion of the drug benefits was pouring fuel on a raging
fire. I am outraged by a drilling moratorium that will cost more than the spill and
have longer lasting negative effects on the gulf economy. I am disgusted with
Obama's treatment of Israel and Arizona. They are actually quite similar. I despise
racism. My daughters are Halfrican Americans. And dancers, sailors, gun owners.
Dingani Beza
Todd..i am well informed..i know they have not expired..but will soon
also, Dave and Micheal admitted it is not tax breaks or cuts which ultimately
determine the economy..nor stimulus checks or bailouts...they had an interesting
convo..u sho...uld read it..i agree with both of them.
Obama's moratorium wanted to shut down 30-something rigs that werent even
drawing oil..they were just driliing...and you know how many rigs are in the gulf...
OVER 3,000!
JOHN BOEHNER IS AN EXAMPLE OF DISAGREEING JUST TO DISAGREE.
HE CLAIMED THAT THE MORATORIUM WOULD BE BAD,...YET...THE
SUGGESTIONS HE GAVE WERE EXACTLY WHAT THE MORATORIUM
STATED! PPL ARE JUST SO PARTY ALIGNED THAT THEY DONT GET IT!
HOW CAN YOU DISPUTE THE FACT THAT WE WERE TOLD BY ANOTHER
COUNTRY THAT THE INTELLIGENCE WAS "UNRELIALBLE" AND MORE
THAN LIKELY FAULTY..WHERE IS THE DISPUTE...
ALSO, AGAIN...OUR PROBLEM WITH SADDAM IS THAT HE MESSED WITH
KUWAIT AND WAS NO LONGER OUR PUPPET THAT HE WAS IN TEH 80'S
Dingani Beza
@dave..you are everyone else's research bitch, as you so eloquently stated above...
you go research stuff when you feel you can disprove it..but when you feel you are
backed in a corner..u dis-engage and claim you dont "go research"...give it up...Putz!
Todd Brophy
Through the end of this year, the federal estate tax rate is zero — thanks to the
package of broad-based tax cuts that President Bush pushed through to get the
economy going earlier in the decade.
...But as of midnight Dec. 31, the death tax returns — at a rate of 55% on estates of
$1 million or more. The effect this will have on hospital life-support systems is
already a matter of conjecture.
Resurrection of the death tax, however, isn’t the only tax problem that will be
ushered in Jan. 1. Many other cuts from the Bush administration are set to disappear
and a new set of taxes will materialize. And it’s not just the rich who will pay.
The lowest bracket for the personal income tax, for instance, moves up 50% — to
15% from 10%. The next lowest bracket — 25% — will rise to 28%, and the old
28% bracket will be 31%. At the higher end, the 33% bracket is pushed to 36% and
the 35% bracket becomes 39.6%.
But the damage doesn’t stop there.
The marriage penalty also makes a comeback, and the capital gains tax will jump
33% — to 20% from 15%. The tax on dividends will go all the way from 15% to
39.6% — a 164% increase.
Both the cap-gains and dividend taxes will go up further in 2013 as the health care
reform adds a 3.8% Medicare levy for individuals making more than $200,000 a
year and joint filers making more than $250,000. Other tax hikes include: halving the
child tax credit to $500 from $1,000 and fixing the standard deduction for couples
at the same level as it is for single filers.See More
15 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.Dingani Beza @Todd..i already know this stuff, I am
well aware of the tax issues which loom ahead, i believe we need the Bush tax cuts,
but, those cuts didnt stop Bush from doubling the deficit in 5 years time ...But, we
seem to be arguing "over' each ...others heads.
I believe both Obama and Bush have done some useful things, and some detrimental
and abominable things..but to keep arguing back on forth and demonizing one or...
the other is futile..
Again, CONGRESS HAS AN 11% APPROVAL RATING...WE MUST START
WITH THESE PRICKS THAT KEEP PPL LIKE YOU AND i DEBATING ON
FACEBOOK WHILE THEY SPEW THEIR POSION, RAPING AND PILLAGING
AMERICA!
Dave Weinbaum replies:
Couldn't find anything to refute or deny. U brought it forward, D. You prove it.
Otherwise, it's UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS! Your serve.
Todd Brophy
The gulf moratorium is much more damaging than you believe.
We get told crap by lots of countries, and Joe Wilson. You get to pick and choose
what we must believe. Saddam lied to his own Generals about his weapons.
Lesley Stahl on U.S. sancti...ons against Iraq: We have heard that a half million
children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you
know, is the price worth it?
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the
price--we think the price is worth it.
That is Bill Clinton;s Albright. Much worse was happening to Saddams enemies in
Iraq.
Dingani Beza
The gulf moratorium is much more damaging than you believe. (Todd)
No it isnt, i have researched it to the fullest. please help me see where...you dont
even have to find the articles that prove your point..just tell me how and i will look
th...e info up myself.
We get told crap by lots of countries, and Joe Wilson. You get to pick and choose
what we must believe. (Todd)
Well, this seems to be what both of us are doing, right? hahaha
Lesley Stahl on U.S. sancti...ons against Iraq: We have heard that a half million
children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you
know, is the price worth it? (todd)
Oh brother, dont get me started on a "humanitarian" argument...My father was a
Senator in an African country where dictators make Saddam look like Mother
Theresa!!!!! LOL! Iraq was not a humanitarian issue!
Again, my example is always Equatorial Guinea..they use to be our third largest
supplier of oil (africa)...we new of the atrocities he commited against his ppl..
genocide at its best..and yet...our state department during the Bush years called this
"civil injustices" that we would not interfere in..ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
Dingani Beza
@Dave..yawn! weak argument...its staring you in the face buddy..i took the first
piece of evidence from my list and googled it and found tons of actual news tribune
articles and filings.....and if you wish to keep dodging the things i wrote...go ahead
putz..i accept my victory..accept your defeat..now leave it alone...quit talking to me
while i talk to todd...go write a column or something..putz!
Dave Weinbaum replies:
I'm writing a column. I don't think even you with the backing of the NAACP can
kick me off my own wall.
Dingani Beza
well stay up there buddy...im '6''3..its the only way we can look eye to eye when
we talk...
Dingani Beza
i saw alot of comments by your supporters saying that bringing up race all the time..
even to oppose it..keeps it going...and its useless to do so..if this is true...they just
characterized you.
im just sayin..lolol
Dingani Beza
@Z..i had to erase my comment..bc i realized that most ppl will never understand
what you just stated...they will always think you are trying to "justify" black hate..
and you are NOT. To me, its not worth the argument bro..
Also.although i...nstitutionalized racism exists for all races of ppl on the earth,but,
ppl will never realize or see the disparity in America concerning laws written to
protect ppl. Many laws have a higher propencity to incriminate and hold minorities
down as opposed to the majority.
one example (but there are many) is our constant talk of the disparity concerning the
penalty of crack vs. cocaine. Crack, recieves a much stiffer penalty than cocaine,
extremely more significant..now, where will one find crack..in the shoe or mouth of
a 16 yr old kid in the minority community. Where will one find cocaine..in white
collar homes, middle class america, yaghts, and the elite. (yes..some wealthy use
crack..hahahah..but not much)
crack will get a man 10-15 years...ive seen ppl get off on cocain with like 18 mo.
So, i wont even bother responding to any comments you get bc of your statement....
those things are not learned..they are "realized"..like a light bulb.
Zondwayo Beza
@D...I deleted it too. I'm not in the mood. LOL
Todd Brophy
Maybe they come from families that put less emphasis on education, fall into bad
associations and commit more crime.
Dingani Beza
please Todd..just study the law and statistics..really...please take a deeper look...
we make up 16% of population..yet 80% of those in correctional institutes...i smart
man knows that 84% of the population is not only commiting 20-25% of al...l
federal crimes punishabl by jail time in America...i am not a conspiracy theorist...but
really...a very tiny rock of crack can get a man put away for all his adolescence into
adulthood (crack is a black and minority drug, it can ber concealed in shoes, mouth,
and places we dont wanna talk about)..while cocaine puts ppl away for MUCH
MUCH shorter..(mostly a middle class drug, while blacks use it, we are not the main
suppliers and users)
Now...am i proposing that these minorities are not commiting crimes..No, i am most
certainly not...most ARE commiting the crime....what i am proposing is that there is
a Large disparity in the way blacks are policed and tried in a court, and, the way the
laws are written to keep them in prison once they commit a crime. there are great
books on this subject.
Todd Brophy
There is also a large discrepancy in the resources they have to deal with a crime
once it has occurred. I suspect you would see a much larger proportion of poor
defendants cop a plea with time and more affluent defendants fight the charge or
cop to a plea without time. I know it is not a simple question of race only. Look at
OJ. He is still looking for the real killer. He only needs a mirror.
Zondwayo Beza
@D...stop....todd just aint getting it
Zondwayo Beza
U cant cop to a plea and due no time unless the charge is not of a serious nature....
ur not making any sense todd. forget poor or rich defendant. what is the charge. it
still goes back to "who is facing the most time" issue
Todd Brophy
Or who has the best defense team. Don't act naive.
Zondwayo Beza
me naive?...lol. you still believe in the American justice system. who is naive?
Dingani Beza
@Todd...just please, i beseech you as the bible says, hahaha...to go look up the
penalties "on the book" for each of these crimes...not the pleas ppl make...look up
the actual penalty for each crime...the penalty itself carries a dispropor...tionately
larger sentencing than the other!
but again...u are entitled to your opinion...we will leave this issue to rest. See More
Todd Brophy
Z I have never faced the decision of having to cop a plea. You may have much more
personal knowledge about this than I do. Perhaps I could learn something from your
experiences.
Zondwayo Beza
was that a racist statement todd? wow. now I know who I am associating with.
Dingani Beza
I could take what you said to my brother as an insult...but i feel you are just getting
aggravated..and i am not going to follow childish talk...i hope Z doesnt go that route
Todd..read my post..its not about pleas...look up the actual "rule... of law" and the
punishment these crimes carry....they are disproportionately sentenced at it pertains
to the law, not please...before you keep commenting ...go look it up and make an
"informed" comment.
Dingani Beza
@Todd..with that beiing said...your last comment to my brother made me see
where your mind has now gone...you were not being HONEST about hoping he had
some experience that would be educational and edifying to thought process..that
was a d...erogatory statment..so please dont attempt to defend it.
I choose not to be "childlike" back..so i will end the conversation here. if i keep
talking, it only gives you the opportunity to continue down that path...so..as to help
you...I will not respond to anything else.
Todd Brophy
It was a cheap shot. I am trying to understand your views. They are not the same
as mine. And it was not intended to be racist. Your claim to superior knowledge
about plea arrangements could have come from a person of any color or
background. Perhaps you are a District Attorney or Defense lawyer. That was not
my inference. My inference was that perhaps you had faced that situation where
you had to fight a charge or "cop" to a plea. It is a possibility.
Todd Brophy
At the drop of the hat, I am a racist. That is the standard Liberal position. You are
being childlike.
Zondwayo Beza
see how u conservatives twist words...I asked "was it a racist statement?" A simple
"yes" or "no" would suffice. lol...
Zondwayo Beza
i only used conservative cause u said liberal todd. chill....
Todd Brophy
I am a conservative. Are you a defense attorney. chillin.
Kelli Kekich Renken
@Dingani: I agree with you that both parties suck. I left the Republican party after
TARP. And I've come to see how deeply corrupt politicians of both parties are.
Congress has an 11% approval rating, but most people will go to the po...lls this fall
and re-elect the incumbents.
We are all too used to our comforts, and we won't give them up till we have to,
though giving them up sooner could save us. We want to have our cake and eat it
too.
I agree with you on the cocaine v. crack issue regarding the disparity in
punishments. I'm not sure it's as much a racial thing as a money thing, and it
happens that more white people have wealth right now in our country. I'd be
interested to know if, in a country where the majority is black, there are still
disparities in the justice system and if they have more to do with money than race.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
Zondwayo Beza
"im not sure it's as much a racial thing as a money thing"
@kelli...even if that statement is true, it would still fall under
INSTITUTIONALIZED racism. (systematic racism). in 2003 whites made up 8%
of defendants due to crack and blacks mad...e up 80%. tho 66% of crack coke
users in America are white or hispanic. in 2006 5 grams of crack was a 5 year
sentence. it takes 500 grams of the powder form to receive the same sentence.
low level crack dealers and first time offenders sentenced for trafficking recieve an
average of ten years. MUCH harsher than RAPE and MURDER in this country.
See More
Kelli Kekich Renken
That is really bad. What can we do to change it? Have you considered running for
office?
chickadee
"Mr. Holder, I believe you are abetting race hate crimes by dropping charges against
the already convicted, clearly racist voter and poll watcher intimidating Black
Panthers. If your boss, President Obama knows or approved of you dropping said
charges then he is complicit."
I was somewhat surprised to see such a strong opinion column in what would be
considered "the dinosaur media". I sure know that nothing like this would ever
appear in the liberal rag in my city.
The Thinker
I was somewhat surprised to see such a strong opinion column in what would be
considered "the dinosaur media". I sure know that nothing like this would ever
appear in the liberal rag in my city.
The MSM appears so immoral and hypocritical, that I think they feel they must
report some of the truth.
Some in the media may actually have consciences and they see the end of the line
approaching too fast.
greatplains
This is a smaller town in south central Missouri. I doubt seriously this editorial
would have made it to print in KC or St. Louis.
You can't get a good conversation going until there is a realization that racism goes
both ways
Dave..none of your posts or the things you say exemplify this! Jon and I "ALWAY"
say that our only concern is that the law is applied "equally" b...oth ways...read all
my comments...this is always my conclusion, not yours.
Dingani Beza
And..if racism does not exist in this country...explain the irrational laws which
prosecute "cocaine" vs. "crack"...i wont even go any further...research yourself.
IrishAmerican Lass
I know that racism exits on both sides, have seen it and experienced it first hand. It
saddens me that its getting worse with the great uniter being a great divider. It
always amazes me that people don't even try to understand the view from the other
side. They think it only applies to those of their own race. What so ever a man think
in his heart !
Dingani Beza
@IrishAmerican Lass..totally agree
Dingani Beza
@All...i just hate that Dave seems to suggest that the Govt "just started" supporting
racism due to the outcome of the black panther incident...
Now, while he may be correct that this is the first incident we have seen where the
DOJ dismiss...ed a case...this is NOT THE ONLY show of support, or the ONLY
way this Govt has shown its support for racism.
Silence is the biggest show of support ever. And on many occasions..the Govt has
been silent as it pertains to all forms of racism...perpetrated on ALL races.
@Keli...make sure you read that the person said white folks dont feel intimidated..i
dont think thats what was said...another problem is that we dont take time to
understand what someone is saying. but...at any rate...i have no ill feelings against
you.
RACISM EXISTS ON ALL LEVELS...I JUST WANT THIS COUNTRY TO
TREAT ALL CASES FAIRLY..THATS IT
IrishAmerican Lass
Dingani, I agree with your statement about silence. I think what is happening is that
this that this admistration is using it as a battering ram against the whites. That's is
just not helpful.
Kelli Kekich Renken
@Dingani: your profile says that your religious view is "a view from the cross." I
think the cross is where we can find peace and reconciliation. I hope that we can all
see that hatred is hatred no matter the color of the person doing t...he hating. We are
all created in God's image and deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. I do
not believe that any race is superior or inferior. We stand and fall on on what we do
and what we say, and for some of us, on the grace of God, through the cross of
Jesus Christ. But reconciliation takes conversation, honesty. listening, and
forgiveness. It is all hard work. It is not helpful if this administration is actually
engaging in discrimination, even if it has been done in the past.
Kelli Kekich Renken
I agree, Dingani. I'm not sure it was your post I was responding to.
Unfortunately, I could not read many of the posts on Dave's website because a
bunch are piled on top of each other. There is some sort of glitch. (Is anyone else
having... the same problem?)See More
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Dingani Beza @Kelli...if you read ALL of my posts..im
not sure where we disagree. When i say something...please make sure you read it in
the context in which it was said. :-) I dont mean that in a mean way, i am only
saying it so we dont waste time deb...ating about things that we agree upon.
Dingani Beza
@Keli...no worries. :-)
But...here is food for thought. Let me know "honestly" what you think.
Two people walk into a grocery store and steal food.
...
Assailant 1 did it becase he gets a thril and a "rush" from stealing and getting away
with it...and he wants to make alittle extra money by selling what he steals.
Assailant 2 has been layed off work...has applied for unemployment and has been
denied, with no family to turn to for help, so, he steals some food to feed his child
who has not eaten.
Are they both wrong? and in what way?
Todd Brophy
Yes, every way.
Dave Weinbaum replies:
"Dave..none of your posts or the things you say exemplify this! Jon and I "ALWAY"
say that our only concern is that the law is applied "equally" b...oth ways...read all
my comments...this is always my conclusion, not yours."
"You can't get... a good conversation going until there is a realization that racism
goes both ways" Me
In light of me saying this, how can you say the above?
I've NEVER been inconsistent with trying to enforce the law either way. As to the
various forms of coke and the proclivity of crack in the black areas, I would agree
they should have equal penalties under the law.
BTW., your protests about equal protection under the law via voting violations are
NOT metered out equally. Those Putz's at the voting polls was the most vile and
open violation of election law in the last 60 years. What you provided me as election
violations were a bunch of untried unproven cases with no link to who did them.
THE BPS WERE ON FILM! It's irrelevent whether the one BP dropped his baton.
The damage to our election prossess and what we may see in the Nov elections has
been done.See More
Albert Reitmann
Kelli:
Read Dave's website using Internet Explorer and you won't have any problems.
Dingani Beza
@Todd...thats all well if thats your answer, but i was looking to dig alittle deeper,
thanks though.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.Todd Brophy Is your point there is a time where it is
all right to break the law? Yes, if the law is wrong or is an undue abuse to society.
That's how the Declaration of Independence came about. Your question did not fall
into that category. It is not ok to steal a pair of Nikes because you have no shoes.
Dingani Beza What you provided me as election violations were a bunch of untried
unproven cases with no link to who did them (Dave)
This just goes to show you havent researched any of those things...there is
abundant material online of actual investigat...ions taking place, and the actual news
articles from the news tribunals of the places where many of these offenses took
place...DO YOU KNOW HOW TO USE A SEARCH ENGINE LIKE GOOGLE OR
YAHOO? IM BEGINNING TO WONDER.
DAVE..this is why the internet is so beautiful...we no longer have to Post all
articles...all one has to do to substantiate another's claim is to look the information
up themselves...thereby proving them truthful, or a liar.
BUT IT SEEMS IF ITS NOT SOMETHING YOU POST, YOU ARE TOO LAZY
TO RESEARCH.
Todd Brophy
Look at what I posted on Dave's wall this morning.
Dingani Beza
@Todd..stop trying to figure me out..i just asked a question...my question is much
deeper than "if there are times if its ok to break law"...thats a pretty shallow
question...and one on the surface..im digging deeper.
Dingani Beza
I am looking for one to answer from a "rule of law" perspective, a sociological
perspective, a psychological perspective, and a human empathetic or sympathetic
perspective....
trust me...that question is NOT concerned with the issue of "if i...ts ok to break the
law"...thats immediately what all ppl think...but not so
.
Todd Brophy
I most certainly am not trying to figure you out. I gave that up.
Kelli Kekich Renken
@Dingani: I've read Les Miserables. And I've seen the movie Pursuit of Happyness.
Both explore or relate to this question. I was frustrated through the entire Pursuit
movie because I could only ask, "Where was this man's community? Wh...ere was
his church? Where was his family? Where were his friends?" If a person chooses to
live in that kind of isolation, then it isn't surprising that they had no help when times
got rough.
There is usually a lot more going on than the simple scenarios you presented. I am
not speaking just hypothetically. I know people and even have family members
faced with this kind of stuff (both scenarios). Did they both break the law? Yes.
Should the penalty be the same? No, and it rarely is. Is every similar case equally
tried and decided in this country? No, and good luck finding anywhere in the world
or in history where that happened.
I think you are a little unjust to Dave. While we should all try to look at all facets of
an issue, in a debate, it isn't his job to prove your side. If there are cases of voting
injustice, show them to us. Or give us links so we can go find those. And even if
injustices have been done (and I'm sure they have) do they negate the injustice done
here. This is a blatant, in-your-face case, and the Justice Dept. appears to have
washed over it.
Dingani Beza
@Todd..well..since u wanna leave that question alone..please..let me tell you who i
am...i am not a Dem or Repub.
While Bush doubled the Deficit and lied to us about WMD's from info acquired from
Germany that they deemed "UNRELIABLE"....and... made alot of "liberal" moves
like -no child left behind- and his work on medicaid and his handling of the
rebuilding of Iraq....
I also find that OBAMA has made some very CRITITCAL MISTAKES early on in
his presidency...for example, letting the Bush tax cuts expire for one, and some of
his views on healthcare, when using the state of Mass. as a blueprint...are totally
wrong......but anyway..this issue of the economy goes much deeper than that...
Michael and Dave had a great convo going on this...
so Todd..i am a man who judges the issue...not the party lines along which
someond falls..bc its getting to a point where ALL politicians are closer to the
middle..with a few stragglers way left or way right...McCain was even just a
conservative Liberal...
Dave Weinbaum replies:
Hey D. It's YOUR argument. I told you I couldn't verify ANY of those cases. The
onus is on you to provide proof. I am not your research bitch!
Dave Weinbaum
BTW., I wrote the above post BEFORE I read Kelli's response to you...Putz!
Dingani Beza
And even if injustices have been done (and I'm sure they have) do they negate the
injustice done here.
@Kellli..this is exactly what i say to Dave constantly. the problem with facebook is
that we can only take into account what ppl say on "...one" given post...we cant
read them all over the last few weeks...
And i believe Dave is so conservative that he fights issues not for what they are...
but from an immediate conservative bias aimed at destroying and demonizing the
other side or his opponent..
Me, i stand in the middle...and i judge each issue as they come. Look at my last
post...i have issue with Bush and Obama...
until citizens in this country stop being so party aligned and fighting one another
every time a bias report comes out and realize that our Congress (ALL of Congress)
has an 11% APPROVAL RATING, MEANING, ONLY ONE OUT OF EVERY 10
PPL THINIK THEY ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, we are never gonna turn this
country around.
Todd Brophy
Agreed, McCain is a lukewarm Liberal. The tax cuts have not yet expired. The
threat is to let them expire, but even economists in the administration say to do so
would seriously harm the economy. I don't believe anybody but Sadam and some i...
ntelligence people who wanted to find WMD's lied about them. But that is water
under the bridge. The expansion of the drug benefits was pouring fuel on a raging
fire. I am outraged by a drilling moratorium that will cost more than the spill and
have longer lasting negative effects on the gulf economy. I am disgusted with
Obama's treatment of Israel and Arizona. They are actually quite similar. I despise
racism. My daughters are Halfrican Americans. And dancers, sailors, gun owners.
Dingani Beza
Todd..i am well informed..i know they have not expired..but will soon
also, Dave and Micheal admitted it is not tax breaks or cuts which ultimately
determine the economy..nor stimulus checks or bailouts...they had an interesting
convo..u sho...uld read it..i agree with both of them.
Obama's moratorium wanted to shut down 30-something rigs that werent even
drawing oil..they were just driliing...and you know how many rigs are in the gulf...
OVER 3,000!
JOHN BOEHNER IS AN EXAMPLE OF DISAGREEING JUST TO DISAGREE.
HE CLAIMED THAT THE MORATORIUM WOULD BE BAD,...YET...THE
SUGGESTIONS HE GAVE WERE EXACTLY WHAT THE MORATORIUM
STATED! PPL ARE JUST SO PARTY ALIGNED THAT THEY DONT GET IT!
HOW CAN YOU DISPUTE THE FACT THAT WE WERE TOLD BY ANOTHER
COUNTRY THAT THE INTELLIGENCE WAS "UNRELIALBLE" AND MORE
THAN LIKELY FAULTY..WHERE IS THE DISPUTE...
ALSO, AGAIN...OUR PROBLEM WITH SADDAM IS THAT HE MESSED WITH
KUWAIT AND WAS NO LONGER OUR PUPPET THAT HE WAS IN TEH 80'S
Dingani Beza
@dave..you are everyone else's research bitch, as you so eloquently stated above...
you go research stuff when you feel you can disprove it..but when you feel you are
backed in a corner..u dis-engage and claim you dont "go research"...give it up...Putz!
Todd Brophy
Through the end of this year, the federal estate tax rate is zero — thanks to the
package of broad-based tax cuts that President Bush pushed through to get the
economy going earlier in the decade.
...But as of midnight Dec. 31, the death tax returns — at a rate of 55% on estates of
$1 million or more. The effect this will have on hospital life-support systems is
already a matter of conjecture.
Resurrection of the death tax, however, isn’t the only tax problem that will be
ushered in Jan. 1. Many other cuts from the Bush administration are set to disappear
and a new set of taxes will materialize. And it’s not just the rich who will pay.
The lowest bracket for the personal income tax, for instance, moves up 50% — to
15% from 10%. The next lowest bracket — 25% — will rise to 28%, and the old
28% bracket will be 31%. At the higher end, the 33% bracket is pushed to 36% and
the 35% bracket becomes 39.6%.
But the damage doesn’t stop there.
The marriage penalty also makes a comeback, and the capital gains tax will jump
33% — to 20% from 15%. The tax on dividends will go all the way from 15% to
39.6% — a 164% increase.
Both the cap-gains and dividend taxes will go up further in 2013 as the health care
reform adds a 3.8% Medicare levy for individuals making more than $200,000 a
year and joint filers making more than $250,000. Other tax hikes include: halving the
child tax credit to $500 from $1,000 and fixing the standard deduction for couples
at the same level as it is for single filers.See More
15 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.Dingani Beza @Todd..i already know this stuff, I am
well aware of the tax issues which loom ahead, i believe we need the Bush tax cuts,
but, those cuts didnt stop Bush from doubling the deficit in 5 years time ...But, we
seem to be arguing "over' each ...others heads.
I believe both Obama and Bush have done some useful things, and some detrimental
and abominable things..but to keep arguing back on forth and demonizing one or...
the other is futile..
Again, CONGRESS HAS AN 11% APPROVAL RATING...WE MUST START
WITH THESE PRICKS THAT KEEP PPL LIKE YOU AND i DEBATING ON
FACEBOOK WHILE THEY SPEW THEIR POSION, RAPING AND PILLAGING
AMERICA!
Dave Weinbaum replies:
Couldn't find anything to refute or deny. U brought it forward, D. You prove it.
Otherwise, it's UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS! Your serve.
Todd Brophy
The gulf moratorium is much more damaging than you believe.
We get told crap by lots of countries, and Joe Wilson. You get to pick and choose
what we must believe. Saddam lied to his own Generals about his weapons.
Lesley Stahl on U.S. sancti...ons against Iraq: We have heard that a half million
children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you
know, is the price worth it?
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the
price--we think the price is worth it.
That is Bill Clinton;s Albright. Much worse was happening to Saddams enemies in
Iraq.
Dingani Beza
The gulf moratorium is much more damaging than you believe. (Todd)
No it isnt, i have researched it to the fullest. please help me see where...you dont
even have to find the articles that prove your point..just tell me how and i will look
th...e info up myself.
We get told crap by lots of countries, and Joe Wilson. You get to pick and choose
what we must believe. (Todd)
Well, this seems to be what both of us are doing, right? hahaha
Lesley Stahl on U.S. sancti...ons against Iraq: We have heard that a half million
children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you
know, is the price worth it? (todd)
Oh brother, dont get me started on a "humanitarian" argument...My father was a
Senator in an African country where dictators make Saddam look like Mother
Theresa!!!!! LOL! Iraq was not a humanitarian issue!
Again, my example is always Equatorial Guinea..they use to be our third largest
supplier of oil (africa)...we new of the atrocities he commited against his ppl..
genocide at its best..and yet...our state department during the Bush years called this
"civil injustices" that we would not interfere in..ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
Dingani Beza
@Dave..yawn! weak argument...its staring you in the face buddy..i took the first
piece of evidence from my list and googled it and found tons of actual news tribune
articles and filings.....and if you wish to keep dodging the things i wrote...go ahead
putz..i accept my victory..accept your defeat..now leave it alone...quit talking to me
while i talk to todd...go write a column or something..putz!
Dave Weinbaum replies:
I'm writing a column. I don't think even you with the backing of the NAACP can
kick me off my own wall.
Dingani Beza
well stay up there buddy...im '6''3..its the only way we can look eye to eye when
we talk...
Dingani Beza
i saw alot of comments by your supporters saying that bringing up race all the time..
even to oppose it..keeps it going...and its useless to do so..if this is true...they just
characterized you.
im just sayin..lolol
Dingani Beza
@Z..i had to erase my comment..bc i realized that most ppl will never understand
what you just stated...they will always think you are trying to "justify" black hate..
and you are NOT. To me, its not worth the argument bro..
Also.although i...nstitutionalized racism exists for all races of ppl on the earth,but,
ppl will never realize or see the disparity in America concerning laws written to
protect ppl. Many laws have a higher propencity to incriminate and hold minorities
down as opposed to the majority.
one example (but there are many) is our constant talk of the disparity concerning the
penalty of crack vs. cocaine. Crack, recieves a much stiffer penalty than cocaine,
extremely more significant..now, where will one find crack..in the shoe or mouth of
a 16 yr old kid in the minority community. Where will one find cocaine..in white
collar homes, middle class america, yaghts, and the elite. (yes..some wealthy use
crack..hahahah..but not much)
crack will get a man 10-15 years...ive seen ppl get off on cocain with like 18 mo.
So, i wont even bother responding to any comments you get bc of your statement....
those things are not learned..they are "realized"..like a light bulb.
Zondwayo Beza
@D...I deleted it too. I'm not in the mood. LOL
Todd Brophy
Maybe they come from families that put less emphasis on education, fall into bad
associations and commit more crime.
Dingani Beza
please Todd..just study the law and statistics..really...please take a deeper look...
we make up 16% of population..yet 80% of those in correctional institutes...i smart
man knows that 84% of the population is not only commiting 20-25% of al...l
federal crimes punishabl by jail time in America...i am not a conspiracy theorist...but
really...a very tiny rock of crack can get a man put away for all his adolescence into
adulthood (crack is a black and minority drug, it can ber concealed in shoes, mouth,
and places we dont wanna talk about)..while cocaine puts ppl away for MUCH
MUCH shorter..(mostly a middle class drug, while blacks use it, we are not the main
suppliers and users)
Now...am i proposing that these minorities are not commiting crimes..No, i am most
certainly not...most ARE commiting the crime....what i am proposing is that there is
a Large disparity in the way blacks are policed and tried in a court, and, the way the
laws are written to keep them in prison once they commit a crime. there are great
books on this subject.
Todd Brophy
There is also a large discrepancy in the resources they have to deal with a crime
once it has occurred. I suspect you would see a much larger proportion of poor
defendants cop a plea with time and more affluent defendants fight the charge or
cop to a plea without time. I know it is not a simple question of race only. Look at
OJ. He is still looking for the real killer. He only needs a mirror.
Zondwayo Beza
@D...stop....todd just aint getting it
Zondwayo Beza
U cant cop to a plea and due no time unless the charge is not of a serious nature....
ur not making any sense todd. forget poor or rich defendant. what is the charge. it
still goes back to "who is facing the most time" issue
Todd Brophy
Or who has the best defense team. Don't act naive.
Zondwayo Beza
me naive?...lol. you still believe in the American justice system. who is naive?
Dingani Beza
@Todd...just please, i beseech you as the bible says, hahaha...to go look up the
penalties "on the book" for each of these crimes...not the pleas ppl make...look up
the actual penalty for each crime...the penalty itself carries a dispropor...tionately
larger sentencing than the other!
but again...u are entitled to your opinion...we will leave this issue to rest. See More
Todd Brophy
Z I have never faced the decision of having to cop a plea. You may have much more
personal knowledge about this than I do. Perhaps I could learn something from your
experiences.
Zondwayo Beza
was that a racist statement todd? wow. now I know who I am associating with.
Dingani Beza
I could take what you said to my brother as an insult...but i feel you are just getting
aggravated..and i am not going to follow childish talk...i hope Z doesnt go that route
Todd..read my post..its not about pleas...look up the actual "rule... of law" and the
punishment these crimes carry....they are disproportionately sentenced at it pertains
to the law, not please...before you keep commenting ...go look it up and make an
"informed" comment.
Dingani Beza
@Todd..with that beiing said...your last comment to my brother made me see
where your mind has now gone...you were not being HONEST about hoping he had
some experience that would be educational and edifying to thought process..that
was a d...erogatory statment..so please dont attempt to defend it.
I choose not to be "childlike" back..so i will end the conversation here. if i keep
talking, it only gives you the opportunity to continue down that path...so..as to help
you...I will not respond to anything else.
Todd Brophy
It was a cheap shot. I am trying to understand your views. They are not the same
as mine. And it was not intended to be racist. Your claim to superior knowledge
about plea arrangements could have come from a person of any color or
background. Perhaps you are a District Attorney or Defense lawyer. That was not
my inference. My inference was that perhaps you had faced that situation where
you had to fight a charge or "cop" to a plea. It is a possibility.
Todd Brophy
At the drop of the hat, I am a racist. That is the standard Liberal position. You are
being childlike.
Zondwayo Beza
see how u conservatives twist words...I asked "was it a racist statement?" A simple
"yes" or "no" would suffice. lol...
Zondwayo Beza
i only used conservative cause u said liberal todd. chill....
Todd Brophy
I am a conservative. Are you a defense attorney. chillin.
Kelli Kekich Renken
@Dingani: I agree with you that both parties suck. I left the Republican party after
TARP. And I've come to see how deeply corrupt politicians of both parties are.
Congress has an 11% approval rating, but most people will go to the po...lls this fall
and re-elect the incumbents.
We are all too used to our comforts, and we won't give them up till we have to,
though giving them up sooner could save us. We want to have our cake and eat it
too.
I agree with you on the cocaine v. crack issue regarding the disparity in
punishments. I'm not sure it's as much a racial thing as a money thing, and it
happens that more white people have wealth right now in our country. I'd be
interested to know if, in a country where the majority is black, there are still
disparities in the justice system and if they have more to do with money than race.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
Zondwayo Beza
"im not sure it's as much a racial thing as a money thing"
@kelli...even if that statement is true, it would still fall under
INSTITUTIONALIZED racism. (systematic racism). in 2003 whites made up 8%
of defendants due to crack and blacks mad...e up 80%. tho 66% of crack coke
users in America are white or hispanic. in 2006 5 grams of crack was a 5 year
sentence. it takes 500 grams of the powder form to receive the same sentence.
low level crack dealers and first time offenders sentenced for trafficking recieve an
average of ten years. MUCH harsher than RAPE and MURDER in this country.
See More
Kelli Kekich Renken
That is really bad. What can we do to change it? Have you considered running for
office?
chickadee
"Mr. Holder, I believe you are abetting race hate crimes by dropping charges against
the already convicted, clearly racist voter and poll watcher intimidating Black
Panthers. If your boss, President Obama knows or approved of you dropping said
charges then he is complicit."
I was somewhat surprised to see such a strong opinion column in what would be
considered "the dinosaur media". I sure know that nothing like this would ever
appear in the liberal rag in my city.
The Thinker
I was somewhat surprised to see such a strong opinion column in what would be
considered "the dinosaur media". I sure know that nothing like this would ever
appear in the liberal rag in my city.
The MSM appears so immoral and hypocritical, that I think they feel they must
report some of the truth.
Some in the media may actually have consciences and they see the end of the line
approaching too fast.
greatplains
This is a smaller town in south central Missouri. I doubt seriously this editorial
would have made it to print in KC or St. Louis.